You can read the full report here: http://usark.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/ESA-2018-Sri-Lanka-Tarantulas-final-rule-1.pdf
You can read the full report here: http://usark.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/ESA-2018-Sri-Lanka-Tarantulas-final-rule-1.pdf
Hey guys, Tom Moran from Tom's big spiders here on an incredibly hot and humid Friday. I'm in my living room and I can't kick the air conditioner on yet because you can hear it in the background, so I'm going to swap this one out so it ends up being a little bit shorter than usual. It's because I'm dying. I'm a winter boy myself. I basically wear a vest unless it gets below 20 degrees in the winter time, so this is killing me a bit, but it's also a topic that I really don't want to have to speak about this morning and I feel compelled to. So we're going to go ahead with this one this morning. As many people have probably overread have already read because it pretty much through spread like wild fire. Recently the US fish and wildlife service have posted their final rule regarding the piece lethario species. Now, for those of you who have been following this one for a while, originally there were a bunch of species, I want to say 10 or 11 on this list, some from India, some from Sri Lanka, and basically here is what the low down is what they've decided and there is a report that you can download for this that is on pdf that I am currently working my way through because there are some very interesting things in it, so I would encourage folks that do enjoy reading and enjoy reading things about the hobby because it's going to be kind of dense reading to read through this because there are some things to be gleaned from it. But here's the deal. First and foremost, let me get this out of the way. I've had several emails, frantic emails from people that were like, I can't believe they just banned all the pokies. They did not ban all of the pokies. They did not ban pokies per se. That needs to be made very clear. There are five species that are currently illegal, too important to the country and you are not able to sell them from state to state, so for example, if I'm in Massachusetts and I have one of these species, I cannot legally without a permit and we'll get into that in a moment, sell them to somebody in Rhode Island or I'll do some in interstate commerce and sell them on my website like a dealer would do all across the country. That's no longer legal. These are the species that are affected. This hurts me to say honestly in anybody that's followed me on my website or my youtube channel, it knows this is probably my favorite genus of drenched list. The pokies I absolutely love peaceful area, so this one's stings a bit, but here we go. A piece area fast, Yada peaceful. A theory or not a. he's left area, Smithy, peaceful area. So fuchsia in peaceful area. The Tata, I currently have four of them. I'm looking to get the other ones before this goes into effect, which would be August 30th, 2018 of this year and I love them. I mean, I can't imagine not having these guys in my collection is, there's a running rule in my house. Every once in a while I'll keep tranches and I'll one that we kind of refer to as one and done like I'll get the tarantula, there'll be a mature male, I'll send it out or it ends up dying and I kind of turned a and I'm like, we're not going to keep that one for awhile and I'll never say these species because I don't want to offend anybody. Which ones I just decide because I only have so much room so I have to really pick the ones that appealed to me. But pokies are always going to have a place in my collection. Um, so this one stings a bit, but I mean, it's terrible because we had the government coming in and telling us what we can do with the animals that have been. Many of these had been bred captive bred in the hobby for years. We have a sustainable population. I'd said this many times in the US. We have a problem with. We import a lot of our stuff from Europe, but there are enough of these species in the country right now that they're not going to go anywhere fast. I mean, we have enough here that we can breed them. They, they, they're readily bread. I know a lot of people breathe them. I have at least three of these that I planned on breeding. Probably not going to breed now and I'll explain why in a moment so you can still read them. They are legal to own. They are legal. You can breed them. If you have slings, you just have to make sure you sell this to someone in your own state. That's basically the long and short of it. So don't. I don't want. I want to make this point very, very clear because this is the part people are getting hot. Hamas hung up on a bit. They stumble over my words. These are legal to own. That is legal with an l, not illegal legal to own. They are legal to breed. You can breed them, but unfortunately trying to get nails for your females. You're going to have to look in state. I live in a small state, quite frankly, it's going to be difficult for me to find somebody. Luckily I have a major vendor in my state that, um, is pretty well recognized and if I have to I can get them from that individual and that might be the case, but for some people that are in states where there isn't a lot, I was just speaking to a keeper of the other day that was explaining to, in his state he can find the animals, but sometimes it involves driving two, three hours so that it's gonna make things a little more difficult than just waiting for Fedex to drive up with their little white truck. So just to explain what is illegal? Interstate and foreign commercial activity are prohibited. You cannot sell them from state to state without a permit cell. In that permit we'll get into in a minute. You can take that right out of your head. For the most part, I'm import or export without a permit for fish and wildlife or conservation purposes. Now, here's where I'm going to go on a little tirade or a little aside here. Unfortunately, those of us were in the hobby feel like as hobbyists, we are doing our part to ensure the survival of these animals because the majority of the species we keep our in their natural environment suffering from habitat loss, they're not protected. They are. These are we can point to probably dozens and it probably won't be around in 50 years and we feel like as hobbyists that we are doing our part to make sure that these animals are around in 50, 60, 100 years because the way it goes right now, some of them will not be. Some might not even make 25 some tens even fee. So we as hobbyist I think have our own little vacuum where we see what we're doing. We appreciate what we're doing. The majority of us do have good intentions. We love these animals. We breed them not so much because we're trying to make money off of them, but you know it is part of the trade. You trade, you get more money but then you get more spider so it kind of all works. It works out, but we see what we're doing. Like when we breed a species like Pisa, Theoria Hannah Model, Lisa, Mika, we are thinking, I know I would be thinking I'm going to be helping to ensure that this animal is around decades from now. Unfortunately the rest of the world and the rest of the people at you know out there do not see it that way. We are seeing is in many instances as part of the problem the pet trade does initially at least, and we can't deny this fact when a new species is found, people go down there, they grabbed those species up, they pull them out of the wild and guess what? That is reducing the numbers, whether we're reducing the numbers for a good thing or not. That's not going to look at that. If they go out and they find a new species, you know I think of a peaceful ethereum. Metallica when that one was first becoming really popular, people were going out there trying to find them in the wild and they were already down to very small numbers in the wild. They were pulling them out of the wild so they could take them and breed them, but keep in mind that people taking them and breed them aren't going, hey, I'm going to save this species. I'm going to be like an ECO hero. They're doing it because they're going to make a lot of money off those little blues spiders. So I think unfortunately the world at large doesn't see it this way. Doesn't see what we can do as a hobby to protect these animals. We haven't earned that level of respect there and I think that's a problem we're gonna have to come back to and I know people behind the scenes right now between this and the Brazilian mess that will. I may touch upon at the end of this. I may not because again, I'm still gathering information and I will tell you the one thing I can say right now is a lot of the public stuff is basically encouraging what's happening. And again, I don't. I will not speak. I don't like putting anything out in a video and an article in a podcast that I'm not 150 percent certain of and I will say that this is a fluid situation right now and I'm still have a couple of people I have to talk to, but we're kind of shooting ourselves in the foot is hobbyist, submit the way. A lot of this stuff is not getting us positive publicity. A lot of this stuff that's putting us more on the radar and I think that's something that even myself, having been involved in the hobby for a while and and just doing the toms big spiders thing, I get to talk to a lot of people that I probably wouldn't have access to if I didn't do this. I'm seeing things in entirely new light now before everybody jumps all over me thinks always backing these guys. I'm not at all I have. I can definitely see the bigger picture here and what we're doing for the most part in this hobby is going to benefit these animals going ahead, but unfortunately I think the part that we don't understand that we don't appreciate is that people don't get us, and I've actually alluded to this in other podcasts and videos and such while we're sitting here publicly arguing, oh my gosh, I'm not going to be able to have my Qantas scurry is anymore. I can't believe it. Which I believe me. I get. I'm horrified at the thought of possibly losing some of these species. Think of what 99 percent of the rest of the population is thinking. They're looking at us going, Oh, poor little Weirdos can have their little spiders. They don't care. And unfortunately something somewhere along the line, hopefully as the hobby gets bigger and builds more steam, we can start doing something as a hobby and I think a lot of us do this where we invite friends and family kind of into our world and try to share what we find so fascinating and try to make what we do look less ridiculous and bizarre. I make fun of myself all the time because I'm very cognizant of what this looks like to the outside world. Do I necessarily care? No. It's never been my thing, but I think not caring and not being cognizant of it are two different things. You need to be aware of the fact that most people think we're odd and I think that's one of the issues we're having, especially with this piece of with area thing when you read the report, is they are not bottom line. They do not see what we do as conservation. We are not seen as conservationalist. There is a permit you can get that allows you to be able to sell. So we'll go back to the piece of the theory of the theory from state to state. Unfortunately you will not get it for being a hobbyist. They're not going to go, oh, you want to keep you a little spider in your collection and your box. You're not going to give it to you. That's the sad truth. And they don't see hobbyist as conservationists. So basically you can't get this permit. It's very, very difficult to get. And that's one of the things I heard some people say, and again, I try not to raise the alarm bells on things. I always think there's a correct way to approach something and it evolves. Careful thought the little deliberation and conferring with people who actually know what they're talking about. Instead of some guy on the internet or some girl on the Internet who's spreading around a bunch of information that he or she doesn't even understand. The first place that drives me absolutely nuts and all it does is create this quagmire of misinformation that we have to wade through. Again, I have to mention this Brazilian situation that it's becoming much more of a mess. And I wish I, again, there'll be a time and place where hopefully I'll be able to share some of the stuff that has been going on, but I don't think we're there yet and I'm not there yet. Again, I want to be completely confident what I'm saying, but just know that there are ways to approach something that don't involve getting out pitchforks and torches and screaming at everybody and saying I'm going to break the law and whatever, or posting lists of species that maybe the people that are in charge of actually enforcing these rules don't even have a list yet. But we just provided one. So things of that nature. I think we need to just take a step back and become. So when going through this, unfortunately we're looking back to the piece of the theory thing. And again, there's a lot going on in the hobby right now. And it's been frustrating for me only because I just. I'm getting bombarded with questions about this while I'm trying to. Like yesterday I spent all yesterday talking to people, trying to get to the root of what's going on in a couple of these things and my goal is to just share it with people in a way to hopefully alleviate any unreasonable fears, but to throw things out there that people may not want to hear. Just so that they understand exactly what's going on and I do appreciate the fact that unlike the other situation with Brazil, that's an old law that is now being relooked at to compare it. It's almost like where I live. There was a town that I lived in that for awhile it was pretty well known that the cops, if they caught you with marijuana, the kids all knew this day would take confiscate the marijuana, but they wouldn't arrest you. It was Kinda like, all right, we're gonna. Let this one go. It was kind of like one of those situations for awhile and now what's happening is that's not going to be the case anymore. They're not going to look the other way. They're not new. Just feign ignorance. They're gonna check up on things and that's the situation we kind of got developing now where it's not a new law, it's one that they are going to apparently in some instances this is getting speed. It gets sketchy or going to start enforcing it and that's where right now, but as far as the[inaudible] thing, those five species, you can breed them, you can keep them, you can trade them, you can sell them to people in your own state. You can't take them over the state borders because of the law that's in place, the endangered species act and you can't bring them into another state. So there's that. The good news is there are enough of these guys out there that most states should have a pretty good population of prices will probably vary from state to state, which I think is something that probably people haven't thought about yet that you know in a smaller state say like Rhode Island where there aren't as many people and not as many breeders. They might be harder to come by or in a larger states like Massachusetts and New York, you may find them very, very easily, so I think what you're going to see now are different prices depending on the state you're in. We're used to seeing that as far as like we get different prices than the UK and Germany and things of that nature, but it's going to be different just from state to state here, so that's gonna be our new reality, something to deal with. I think what's going to happen, I hope what's gonna happen is there will be basically people will emerge as the established piece of the theory of breeders in certain states. So for example, Rhode Island might have a couple of people that they know are working, always working on having sex at different pieces of various species, so we'll continue to get those species out there to people in that state. That's pretty much it in a nutshell. So you can keep your Fascia. Is your announced as your smithy if you don't have them. Again, let's, let's throw it out there. You have the August 30th, the order. I mean, I can tell you now having spoken to some vendors that they're moving there, they're already selling because people don't want to be caught without them. Heck, I'm going to be placing an order pretty soon to make sure I've got these species in my state before this goes into effect. Whether or not I breed, that's a different ballgame and that's where I think we're gonna run into issues is far as if being from a small state. If I decide to breed, I'm limited in where I get my, you know, to start off. It won't be that bad. There are a lot of people out there that have bloodlines at different from different from mine I'm sure of that. But as we get further on into this, you know, 10 years down the road, really worried about how many times we're just going to be basically a breathing the same species to their own relatives, which inbreeding isn't as big of a deal with Tarantulas is it can be with some other animals, but eventually inbreeding obviously is going to have an impact and we don't really want that. So that's something I do worry about that without new blood coming in smaller states, you just gonna be breathing very shallow gene pool, let's put it that way. So that's something I actually worry about. And then as far as the breeding aspect, again I'm. I put my breeding, I had a couple of these I plan on breeding this year. I'm putting that on hold because I have to be able to move these things. I can't afford to be stuck with a bunch of peace Lethario, hundreds of people at various links and that I can't move. So there has to be a demand for it and there might not be that much of a demand for it, which means people are going to shy away from breeding them, which means they might disappear a bit. In some states. I think of the old Brown version of the team, uranus, the obt model, people don't realize the original version of the obt that came over was a brown specimen and when the orange where they called starburst or somewhere they have some fancy name for the red obts that we're all familiar with. The orange ones. When those came over, people like, Oh man, these are gorgeous, and they stopped breeding the Brown ones and the Brown was disappeared for awhile. They're starting to make a come back into the hobby, but that was one that if it had been up to United States to keep that going, say that one had been banned. We couldn't get any more. We would have been in trouble because we wouldn't have had that species. So that's something to think about that there needs to almost be coordinated efforts to get these guys. Brett. Now I know some people have been talking about that they need a CD CBW permit to keep these guys that captive bred wildlife permit and you can try to get one of these, but here's the issue and now I'm still figuring all this stuff out myself, so please feel free if I misquote something or say something the wrong way and somebody in the know can correct me. Absolutely. I don't have all the answers I'm trying to take in and assimilate a lot of information right now and deliver it accurately. But this is a$200 permit. So we're talking a very pricey permit per application. There are no refunds. If you're denied now you say, I want to get some pure Nada. I'm going to put in and say that I'm going to be a breeder and I'm going to hopefully help with the conservation process. You probably not going to get it. And then what's going to happen is they don't give you your$200 back. They keep the$200. You get denied, you're out of the money. Now it gets worse. Say I want to sell some pure nodded. As somebody in Rhode Island, I'm like, all right, we work out the plan guy wants to buy. Some people are not a slang for me to get them into Rhode Island, you know, get, get their stocks upset. That individual has to pay the$200 permit application. I have to pay the$200 permit application myself. That's 400 bucks to get those in there. And then apparently it's per situation. So if we go to do this later on, we have to do it again. And I've heard talk that it's purse species. I don't know about that, I can't come and hopefully somebody will come in and told me in, but even if it's just per situation, I want to do one sale that's$400 tacked onto the price of that, so it's cost prohibitive for most people. That's a lot and the fact that there's no refund if you get denied is enough. That's going to put most people off. I'm not going to try it. I was looking into it. I'm thinking, you know, Tom's big spiders. I must have a little bit of clout and out there and be able to say, hey, look it. I talk about these things I write about. I'm on, you know, I'm pushing for conservation efforts, whatever. Maybe like. Yet when I looked into it and it's like there's no way, there's no way I can afford to shell out$200 and not even know what I'm going to get. So unfortunately that's probably not going to work out. Now, one of the things that really irritates me about this is this is a conservation effort. This is the idea that there are entry longer. Supposedly they've clamped down on the deforestation and what's happening with their forest and the fact that they're not there anymore and we all can recognize that is probably bs and then part of this interstate trade thing is part of a law in the US. It's kind of archaic. That's the same thing that's impacting our resilient species that we can't spread them from state to state. It's just a nightmare, but one of the things that really gets me is that I just did a whole thing on brown boxing and the fact that we have rules in the US to to control these, to make sure people aren't smuggling them in legally illegally to help control this kind of stuff and encouraging people not to brown box. Not to break the law. We talked a little bit about shipping us posts for these animals. It's illegal to ship the Arachnids for us post or at least the trenches and scorpions. Scorpions listened to for medical issues, which were none of us are using them for medical issues. Let's be real, but unfortunately this type of law is only going to punish those who are doing things the right way and the people that are doing it the wrong way are going to be encouraged to think about. Most people are going to go, all right, well, you know what? I want this piece of the theory of species. I can't find it. My state. I'm going to hop over to a pet store across state boundaries and pick it up. I doubt we'll get to the point, and I could be wrong on this one and I'm not. This isn't a dare, but I doubt we'll get to a point where pet stores are going to start carding people. Like if I go over to say Massachusetts, right by trenches anyway, because we can't sell them out in the open, in my state. I go over to Massachusetts. I doubt we're going to get to the point where somebody goes, hey, can I see your license? I'm sorry man. Just to warn you, this is this. This is a law. You can't bring these across the board. You can't bring these back home. They're not going to care. It's going to be up to the person buying them to not break the law. Nobody's going to check. So if I want to go over there and buy a bunch of spiders and quote unquote smuggle them over the border to my state, I can do that. And I got a funny feeling. I've already talked to some people that were 100 percent on board with my brown boxing article that said, you know, I like to do everything legally. I would never want to do something like this. They're already talking about, you know what? This law is ridiculous. I'm going to go ahead and break it and I'm not encouraging people to break it. I want to make that very, very clear, a clear. I'm not encouraging people to break the laws. I'm just saying that the, the honest to God fact of the matter is people are going to be now encouraged to break the laws. We want our spiders, we want to get them. A lot of people are gonna see this as a silly law. A lot of people are going to see this as the government overstepping its bounds. Once again, not my words, just trust me. There'll be other people's words and they're going to ignore it. So it's a shame because I think one of the things that has kind of hurt us in this hobby is our transparency. We do everything out in the open. We sell these animals out in the open facebook groups on forums there, right? We don't hide. A lot of this stuff is a matter of fact. The amazing part is people that are doing it illegally, don't hide it. They will smuggle stuff in and keep in mind, fish and wildlife are watching. They are watching the boards. They are following all of this. Everything you say now, if you're one of the types of people that just angry and wants to Piss people off, and Sarah official wildlife, they're terrible. They're bureaucrats. Well that's great. They will hear you, but you're not doing the hobby any good because these are human beings. Some of them are actually hobbyist. Some of them actually appreciate the hobby and appreciate what we do. You don't want to alienate them, we want them on our side, so please keep in mind anything you say is being seen by these people and they are human beings, so if people start really coming down on them, it's not going to do anybody any good, but they see all this stuff. We do a lot of things in this hobby right out in the open. We've been transparent and I think in this case it's starting to hurt us because it is all out there. Those t cell Idonia that were being sold for hundreds of dollars while I'm getting on my feet. I have on my phone, I have google. I love reading the news in the morning on my phone and my google basically. I love the fact that just gives me all the little things I like to read about. So I get my MMA news. I get my transformer news. I'm a geek. I get any spider articles, pop up. Metal articles. Well, one of the spider articles that popped up not that long ago, it was one about t cell Idonia and it was about how it was a beautiful species in Brazil and how it was losing its habitat and then it started talking about the pet trade and how we're pulling them out. That doesn't look good, whether it's true or not. More people. Then more people are inclined to believe that. Then we're actually doing some huge service to conservationism by pulling these guys out of the wild, breeding them and then selling them for hundreds of dollars. Think about it. Hundreds of bucks. We're. We've got them out there in the public. So I think in some ways the trenchill a hobby has to its credit, been rather transparent. Like you can go on any of these social media places and find people selling stuff, whether it be legally, whether it be illegally, but I think that's going to haunt us now because we don't realize or haven't realized that by doing that. Some of the stuff that we did that isn't quite good has been basically right out there in the open and thrown in people's faces and in the wrong faces, so not saying we deserve this. I, I, again, I just don't find this particularly reasonable that we can't continue to breed and sell in our own country. I can get. I get 100 percent. They said we can't import any more of these. We shouldn't have to at this point. I'm totally okay with that. I'll put, I'll be on record for that. At this point with those species, we should have them establishing the hobby or enough of them over here that we can keep it going in our hobby. Keep the bloodlines fresh. There shouldn't be an issue there. I'm totally fine with that. The selling from state to state just is a really terrible decision. So yes, this sucks. I mean, it's about as low was like, I'm going to get on this one, but there's no other way to put it. This is not a good thing. Uh, being a fan of peaceful a theories species, it crushes me to know it's gonna. Be more difficult for me to get them. It crushes me to know that I'm going to have to reevaluate my breeding plans going ahead, and it was always my goal to breed every species a piece of the area. Now we're off of this. I'm hoping because that original list had a bunch of Indians species on it as well and I believe peaceful ethereum. Metallica was listed as well. I'm hoping that that's it for now, but keep in mind the same people, the same equal rangers that pushed this into, you know, basically through this at us fish and wildlife, so they had to do something about it and said, complained that we were pulling these guys out of the hobby and that we need to stop at those same people aren't going to stop. They've been empowered. They're going to go and go, look it, we've got these five now. We got to work on the rest of them, so I wouldn't be surprised if things change. I do know that there are folks at work trying to get rid of the rule that says that we can't trade with among the states and sell species, a foreign species. They've been bred captive bred in our own country. So for example, right now it doesn't matter where you're. You could be working on the 200th generation of a specific. We'll just say PV Tada. They were pulled out of the wild 20 years ago. You're working on the 20th generation. They don't care that you're not allowed to cross state lines with them. It doesn't matter to them. There are people working on that. I know that, um, who's arc is the reptile, the United States Association of reptile keepers battles this stuff all the time and I know they're looking at this and they were actually the ones that posted up the announcement from us fish and wildlife about the piece of Lithuania species of the Sri Lankan. Peaceful theory. Various species. I know that they're on it and I do believe they are working on legislation that would get rid of the law that says they can't be traded from state to state. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong, I am going to try to get ahold of somebody from whose dark, hopefully get here, she to comment on this and give us some ideas of where to go because I do think with all that's going on in the hobby now we really need to take a step back and figure out where do we go moving ahead, because this could happen with any country at any time. The thing with Brazil with this, it could happen any now that the. The, the Pandora's box has been opened. This is out and I'm sure other countries are going to start seeing their species that have been plucked. They know darn well they weren't legally taken out of the country. They're going to see them selling over in the United States for six, 700 bucks a sling and they're gonna go, wait a minute, what is this? And then we're going to lose more species. And that's terrifying to me. And and again, living in a state where it's harder for me to get ahold of them. I buy them the majority of my stuff online. This one kills somebody like me. That was a moment I was talking to billy the other day about the Brazilian thing and other piece of that theory a thing and how things are going well with all this stuff and I was like, I don't know where I'm going to be in two years doing this. Tom's big spider stuff because I really don't want to have to worry about what I'm talking about. Like, all right, well I probably shouldn't. I, I'm, I'm supposed to own this one so I can't talk about this and that's just going to be too much. So trying to figure out where we go. Moving ahead. I know we had the British trenches society. I think that honestly at some point we need to do something in the United States with people, get a group together and create some type of body that can help with this type of stuff. I don't know what it and I, and again, I'm just throwing out ideas here, but it seems like we need as a hobby to be able to coalesce around something to be able to come together because what's happening now is a bit of a nightmare. We have a bunch of people putting out information. We have a lot of misinformation circulating. We have a lot of people that are just spreading misinformation without checking with people that know we have some people that are checking with people that know, but they might not be the be all end all and authority on the matter, and then we have people with their own agendas. I mean, let's call it as it is. A lot of us are looking at this from the hobbyist perspective that we love these animals. We absolutely love these animals and we want to make sure that they remain in the hobby because we do appreciate them probably more than most 99 percent of the human beings on the planet. I think that's, that's a true assessment of our hobby for the majority of us. We're not in this for money. We're in it for the love of the animals, however guys, it is a business that's probably what attracted attention to it and I'm not putting down businesses. I want to make this very clear. I'm friends with all of the dealers out there and to consider myself very friendly and there are some fantastic people, the type of people that you'd want in business because they have heart, they have class and honor and respect and all the things you've wanted for somebody that you're going to do business with and they do keep us. They get us or animals. I mean, so that is an integral part of it being a hobby. Would there being a hobby? There's going to be. We're not just giving things away. Obviously there's always going to be a business component. You just want to make sure you're dealing with people that are upstanding in the business aspect. Put the customer at the people, the animals first, and we have a lot of that, so I'm not bashing that, but we are dealing with live animals and anytime you're dealing with live animals and especially the creepy crawlies like the reptiles and snakes and the scorpions, things of that nature, those aren't the most popular pets out there. If it were dogs, people would be a little more sympathetic with our plight. Oh, I want a labradoodle too. They're not allowed to breed labradoodles in the state or they're not allowed to cross a state blinds with a labradoodles. That's horrifying. People would be much more behind us, but unfortunately that's not how it is. So we have to be very careful with the image we put forth. We have to be very careful about the people we have representing us. We have to be very careful about the people that are, you know, we're coalescing around as leaders in this and I do think that moving ahead, this could be a wake up call to United States hobby. I know we had an American transwell association, but I think it went defunct. I remember trying to join years ago and I watch my paypal invoice sit there and nothing got sent to me and finally ended up having pay pal, reverse it because I couldn't get ahold of anybody. If somebody wants to clue me in on what happened with that, I don't know, but there almost seems to be need to be a group in the United States or somebody that can. We can go to for this type of information. You know the reptile hobbyists, they have theirs and they do fantastic work and they obviously spill over into the Arachnid hobby and I'm not saying it has to be as big and powerful as they are and do the work that data, but it almost seems like we need something. We need a group of people that when something like this comes together, they will put their heads together. They will have the respect needed to approach the appropriate people and get the respect from them to get the right answers so that we'll know what we're dealing with. So we're not a bunch of people running around on facebook and wrapping boards and whatever other form you may be on Tumblr or twitter, whatever it may be, just basically regurgitating whatever anybody tells us that, you know, social media. I'm not one of those people that immediately bashes it. And honestly I, you know, I, I think there are some great things to come on a social media, but I will say we're starting to see the ugly side of it with this situation with stuff just being spread and taken, just taken without any type of. Should I look at whether or not this information is correct or not? And even with this ruling where they put up a very good announcement, I thought to explain the peaceful area thing. There is still a lot. There are still a lot of questions. A lot of people don't actually understand what is being said. So it'd be so nice we can put something together and maybe that's something we talk about as a hobby and some people can get together and start discussing what this would look out, but some type of organization that would allow us to get this information out there and even better to fact check this information or in the situation of this Brazilian tarantula thing, be able to look into laws, be able to see exactly what we're looking at and be able to do some of the homework that's going to be required to get some of these species off this list and if the list even exists. So we have to. I think as a hobby, this is a point where there should be a lot more discussion. Obviously we got to figure out a way to navigate through the pizza theory thing is done. That's it. It is a to say anybody have watched UFC Max Holloway. It is what it is. We've. That's not going to change in the near future unless they change the law. That allows the interest rate trade, but that's. That's it. That's done. Resilient thing is still in progress and we have some things we could actually improve our situation on, but I think all the constant banter and posting lists and and talking about and people talking like authoritarians that don't really know what's going on. I think that's got to end and it would be nice. Think about it, think about how nice it would feel to know that we had some type of body governing body that is looking out for the hobby that can look into these laws that can figure out what's going on and get that information to us and give us some type of guidelines of what we should do. Who should we be contacting? What should we be doing as hobbyists to ensure that we keep these species in there? Right now we're running around like a chicken with its head cut off everybody going in different directions. Everybody with different agendas and it's pretty sad. So the good thing is I think we can salvage something great out of this. It at least, and again, I apologize for every once in awhile. I forget the fact that people that listen to my podcasts aren't necessarily in the United States. I'm usually very cognizant of that actually, but in this case, I've been running off a lot about this, but at least you guys can appreciate it. Sounds like you guys are safe for the time being, but you know, keep in mind this can happen to anybody anywhere and this is what we're dealing with over here. So I have some sympathy for your Yankee brothers and sisters over here because we're kind of suffering with this one, but I think as a group, as a hobby, it's integral that we use this, these two incidences as the impetus to get something rolling in as far as some type of body that can help handle this stuff. And if there's one out there, God forbid I can picture somebody going, well Tom, there's already one out there. I don't even know of it, so let me know. Point me in the right direction. I'd be happy to contact, join whatever it takes. This is even something that, you know, if we had dudes or something, I'd be willing to kick some money and to know that somebody was out there fighting for us or looking into our best interests instead of just being a post on a rack into boards or facebook posts on somebody's page. That's not enough. I mean that's just not how the world works. So as much as we can all hem and hall and talk, we'd really need to focus and kind of really make sure our voice is being heard. So again, I'm sure this isn't going to be the last time I addressed this. I'm hoping to do more on the Brazilian species going head. But again, I don't like to open my mouth unless I'm pretty certain what I'm saying and I will say that I'm getting in misinformation and myself try to look in. I'm hearing two different things from the same people. It's been very confusing and as a hobbyist and is somebody that unfortunately or fortunately, however you want to look at, a lot of people come to asking for clarification on this stuff. It's been very frustrating to not know exactly what to say. I've gotten tons of comments. What do you think about this? What's going on? And the more digging I do and the more people I talked to him, the more information I try to get, the more difficult it becomes to really figure out what is going on and what is actually what we're actually looking at right now. So I know these are these. It's been kind of the data, but I'm not gonna say anything. They'd have people misquote me or misconstrue what I'm saying. Just know that there are people working on this right now and stay tuned. So anyway, that about does it for this one. This was I have to do something positive next time. This was originally supposed to be something about how to take care of a larger collection of Tarantulas, but I feel like I had to come out with something for this because a lot of people are currently discussing and I, I do again, private conversations. Talk about all you want. Things are public. My final message for this one is just keep in mind every bit the government is absolutely aware of what's going on. They're aware of everything we say and sometimes they're right on the boards with you commenting with you. So be careful what you say. It's, you may think it's, you know, one of those situations where, wow, it's just a bunch of trenchill hobbyist. Nobody's going to care. Well, some of these guys trenchill hobbyist to, they're going to hear it, so let's be constructive with how we engage in our discourse online so that we don't put ourselves in a worse spot as poor lilly has a nightmare behind me. Oh, poor girl. So that'll about do it for this one. Again, next week I'll make sure that the next one's positive or if I have to address any of this stuff again, I'll do so very quickly and move onto something fun like fluffy bunnies or something like that. But, uh, thanks so much everybody for listening, especially if you're somebody who's outside of the U. S I very much appreciate you taking the time if you actually listened all the way through this because it obviously doesn't impact you, but I do feel like I will say one of the most awesome parts about doing this whole Tom's big spiders thing, which I never expected to ever amount to anything is just how many people from different countries they get to talk to about the hobby. It's, it's absolutely amazing. I, every time I turn around, somebody's sending me greetings from another country and I like, Hey, what's the lobby like over there? What do you guys got? I love it and I think we are. That's one thing. We're all a bit weird in our own country, so it kind of brings us all together despite politics, despite, you know, boundaries, whatever age. It's something that really does bring people together. So we do appreciate your support guys and it's been great having a couple of people email me, go, hey, I'm really sorry to hear what's going on in the states, not the uh, we got all these species and you can't have them. So thanks guys. So anybody would like to comment, feel free to comment on my facebook page. I've been a little less responsive lately because I've been doing a lot of stuff behind the scenes trying to figure out what's going on with all this stuff and the Brazilian thing and everything else and it's been taking a lot of time. So I apologize if I don't get the things right away. I endeavor to try to answer comments as fast as possible, but it's getting more and more difficult so I apologize. But I do get to the facebook comments eventually. Feel free to check out my website, Tom's big spiders when I'm working on an article about all this stuff and hopefully I'll have that up the century because it's every time I start reading it I get new information and feel free to check out my youtube page. So as usual, thanks so much for listening. I am going to finish the rest of my coffee and kick on the air conditioner because it is hot as heck in here. So thanks so much.